398th Floor: Julian & Deb Montgomery - From Idea to Table

A word game that uses puzzle pieces sounds like a gimmick until you watch how fast it turns into strategy. We’re hanging out with Julian and Debbie Montgomery, a powerhouse creative couple who went from Minnesota to Los Angeles and somehow ended up building a real tabletop game you can actually hold in your hands. Julian brings the storyteller brain and the systems brain, composer and software engineer energy, while Debbie brings architectural design instincts that make ideas physical. Together, they built Puzzingo, a word building board game that feels familiar at first glance but plays in a totally different way once you’re placing tiles, locking shapes, and trying to outthink the table.

We get into the origin story: a poetry children’s book, experiments with puzzles, a late-night moment watching a mobile word game, and the question that changed everything: what if word building and puzzle mechanics were the same experience? From there, it’s prototypes, playtests, rule tweaks, bonuses, and the satisfying grind of making something that works, not just something that sounds cool. If you’re into board game design, tabletop gaming culture, 3D printing, laser cutting, or launching an indie product, you’ll hear the real steps it takes to move past “I want to” into “we did it.”

We also talk about what comes next: prepping for a Kickstarter board game launch, getting copies into the hands of reviewers, and the long-term dream of seeing Puzzingo on store shelves. Plus, we love how they blend modern convenience with classic game night by adding optional online tools like phone-based scorekeeping and timers, without losing the face-to-face connection that makes board games special.

Check out Puzzingo.com, share this with your favorite game-night crew, and if you enjoyed the conversation, subscribe and leave us a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Elevator Catchphrase

unknown 0:01

Every day elevate. Every day. Elevate. Hey. Every day.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hey, it's Jen the Builder. And the Corey. And we're on Take the Elevator almost at 400. Like I think two or three, three episodes short.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Yeah, we're really, really close. And if you know me, you know I'm trying to get to five, and then we'll decide what we do from there. But uh four is us one step closer to five.

April Rush And Tax Pain

SPEAKER_00 0:32

So absolutely. Let's talk about real quick how this month has been so far.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Oh, it's gone. It feels like it's just blowing by. And I haven't had time to accomplish any of the things I was setting out to do outside of the norm, you know?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah, it really did blow by. Taxes came. Oh April 15th kind of put a dent in my month. We're just like, I mean, you can't win for losing. It's like they're gonna get what they want to get, and we're just like, here, take it. Yeah, have it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

You might as well say take it because if you don't, they're gonna do it anyway. Then it feels like a violation.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Right. And then put um interest on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Anyways, I'm gonna leave it up to you to tell us what we have to look forward to today.

Meeting New Friends At A Fair

SPEAKER_02 1:17

So we have some very interesting guests with us today, and these guests are people that we met at a book fair slash festival of sorts that um we this was one of our first, as a matter of fact, that we had uh actually got invited to. So um I knew upon meeting them, like after really having a decent conversation, that we were gonna be friends for life. And um, I don't say that about people, and you know that, Jen. Um it's hard for me to get the words together because I didn't want to practice this. I didn't want to, you know, write this stuff down. But I knew that uh when you meet good people, good-hearted people, people that have similar belief systems as you, that you kind of want to draw closer to them and and understand them a little bit better. Uh, would you say that is kind of similar to what you thought?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

For sure. I actually was quite embarrassed when I first met them. And I know we're gonna give them a name. It's so I don't know why we're being so mysterious, but that's okay. So when we were, it was at Riverside Library, right? And the wind was going nuts, and you and I set up, and you know, we had everything, and I think our tent or whatever that's called started to fly away.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Everything was flying away.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, and um, they were all just so nice, yeah, so helpful. And I felt like that you all were very organized. You had your bins, your table was right on, and ours was just kind of full of things. So I thought that was a lot of fun to see the difference, but yet find the similarities and commonalities as we got to know them.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Absolutely. So we're just gonna welcome to the elevator for a little bit of uh knowledge, information, uh adventure, creation, and and a whole bunch of other stuff. Uh, this is Julian and Deb Montgomery. And uh just welcome to the elevator. Yeah, welcome. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_05 3:21

Glad to be here.

Why They Left Minnesota For LA

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Absolutely. So if uh I didn't get a chance to give him a proper introduction, but Julian Montgomery is a composer, a synthesist, and a sound designer for film and television, video games and other visual media. Uh, and he's based out in Los Angeles, California. And Jen and I are gonna talk about this a little bit because a lot of people here in California are running to try to get out of here. And these two found their way to California.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

So, first of all, hello, Julian, hello, Deb. It's so good to have you here. Um, true story. I thought, Corey, these are people after we got to know you that did research and experimented to try to get into California. And a lot of our friends have tried to get out of California and been successful. So please tell us why in the world you would come to our beautiful state. We we've been born and raised here. We don't know anything different, and we couldn't imagine anything different. But let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Well, I guess I'll I'll start you ahead. So um, so we we were we're we we uh spent most of our life in Minnesota. My wife is born and raised there. I came there as a as a little kid and sp and you know, spent most of my life there, specifically Minneapolis, Minnesota, and then a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota. There St. Paul and Minnesota are called the Twin Cities. And uh I didn't like living in Minnesota at all. It's too cold for too long. It's uh it's an environment where um living in in the the uh twin cities is really uh diverse, but you go just a little bit outside of there, and it's just the the lack of diversity. And you know, we ran into stuff with our kids with you know just some racial stuff where where we live that was surprising. We only like eight miles outside of the the city. And um uh and so I just I wanted to move away from Minnesota a long time. My wife, you know, both both of us, our our families are there. Um, you know, she is you know really connected to her family, and she didn't want to leave. But uh so we finally got to the point where we were both like, okay, it's time. And we were gonna go to Atlanta. So I didn't I didn't want to move west. I thought my thinking of LA was uh oh, here we go. Plastic people. I can't stand West Coast style hip hop. Um I just didn't want to have anything to do with it. And and uh so we were headed to Atlanta. We have a I have a little bit of family down there. Um we had visited down there, and it was really cool how you could live, you know, outside of the city, but it was still really diverse. Um but uh I don't we can't really remember the reason why, but we we caught I, you know, I caught wind of how the weather was out out here. And so we was I was like, okay, let's just go out there and we'll see. Now, granted, I'm telling you, I really had no, I didn't, I didn't like anything about the weather. You know, I'd never been out here, I was just like, you know, I didn't want to have anything to do with it, but I was like, we'll we'll go out there and check it out. And we fell in love with it. We both did. She now to give you a little bit more. My wife, when she was graduating high school, she was gonna be going to college out here to um Dominguez Hills. Dominguez Hills in Carson.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Um and make a long story short, something happened with her housing.

unknown 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And she wasn't able to go. But that was her coming out of high school.

SPEAKER_05 7:29

That was my dream. That was her dream.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah. And uh, you know, that was a long, long time ago. Uh, but that was that was that was that was her dream. That wasn't my dream. Uh we we we were we were dating at at the time, so uh I knew this about her. But that you know, that went way to the side. We we raised our family in Minnesota. But uh coming out here, um, we fell in love with the uh the fact that you know the the weather was a lot better most most of the year. Um we we spent a lot of time looking at um uh just going around the different parts of of LA and doing a lot of people watching um and seeing you see a lot of plastic.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

I didn't see no plastic. Everyone's walking around with no emotion, like everything's always the same all the time.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I'm like, well, I was way, way wrong about that.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

He was surprised. I was surprised.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Like it was just regular people, yeah. You know, it wasn't you know, you could definitely go to certain areas, you can go to, you know, uh Calabasas, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Yeah, Malibu.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

But it was just like, oh, you mean regular people just live in LA, just working and doing whatever they do? That that was shocking to me.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Julie, I'm gonna jump in here real quick and then we'll we'll jump back into your story. But this is a uh a music writer, a music composer, and and I just was jotting down what you were saying, and and let me just show you how the music mind thinks too cold, too long, moved away to a very warm place to fall in love. That's that's the perfect song right there. That's a song that he wrote. He just wrote it with his words, and I just copied it down.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, love it. So, welcome to California. We're so glad to hear. I'm glad that we're saving this part of the intro for a little bit later because I think behind every brilliant, creative, um, grounded, successful man is a beautiful wife and woman who stands and supports and just says, okay, let's try it. That's that's a resilient woman. So, Deb, we're so glad you're here. And I don't have a website for you in front of me, but uh, what I do know about you is you're not just a strong, um, loving wife, you're also a mom, very family-oriented, and you're an architect.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

I'm not an architect, but I'm at architecture school. I'm an architectural designer. Love it. Okay. Um, but yeah, so I love that's my creative outlet. Yeah. And um, but yeah, I'm the biggest supporter of Julian and his vision because he's so creative himself and he's so driven. And it's just an honor and a pleasure to just work with him. And I'm your biggest supporter of he is my biggest supporter.

Why Board Games Still Matter

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I think we need to leave the room. Like we're entreating on a moment here. But we're gonna leave the audience here to hear. So, with all the stuff you've done, I have to say, I just went on your website. Your your involvement in music has to do with, I think, a really successful show on Netflix, Reacher. We don't watch much TV, but I think that's two episodes, and there's so much work that you've done. But guys, we're not here to talk about that. What we're here to talk about, and I really wanted to highlight this, is in the world of technology and things just happening super fast, everyone, that's the lane that most people want to get into. You've decided to get into a lane that I feel is so roots-driven in America, um, something that goes way back that I think we could possibly lose touch with something that brings families, friends, people together for good, genuine time for connection. And that's the world of board games.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

But not just a board game.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Not just that.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

And I'm gonna just go back a little bit because see, I understand something. We're all in the same age bracket. We understand that sometimes natural disasters, natural catastrophes happen. Lights go out, power go out, and you don't have anything to do. Your phone's gonna die. That would be like right, this goes back to the grassroots of knowing what to do when you don't have the other thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yes, light them candles. Light the candles, it'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Get around the table and whip out that board game. That's where it took me. And so that's why my heart grows near and dear to this, because this is what I grew up on. And so, first and foremost, they brought the board game with us with them that they've created from scratch, like from the very light bulb that went off to every piece of the puzzle, no pun intended, uh, sitting right in front of us. So, my first question, how do you feel, both of you, because I know both of you put so much into it, and I and I really want to hear what you added and what you added. How do you feel having this product sitting before you right now today? It's surreal.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

Like just seeing the box, seeing all of the creative juices that we put into designing it and creating it, and now to see the fully finished product is amazing. Amazing.

Seeing Pazingo As A Real Product

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, I mean, you know, to see something that starts off as just this idea laying in bed one night, and then we can actually reach out and touch this thing. Yeah. Is crazy to me. Yeah. Uh I it's hard to actually find the words because it's I don't know, it's just it's I haven't really been able to describe how I feel when I see the box. Right. But it's for lack of a better word, it's dope, man. I love it. I love that.

The Pazingo Elevator Pitch

SPEAKER_02 13:36

So, Julian, give me your two-minute elevator pitch, break the game down, and please give it a name.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

So we can start plugging this in. The name of the game is called Pazingo. It's a word building game that is a combination word building plus puzzles pieces. Um, and the whole the whole point is to um, you know, on the surface it looks similar to Scrabble, but it's very different than Scrabble. And you have to put put form words, but using these puzzle pieces that some of the pieces have straight edges. Um it the the the puzzle pieces are are based on a on a square puzzle. Uh so there's straight edges, there's some that have two edges, and there's some that have, you know, no no straight edges. And you're trying to form words with with other tiles that have been already played on the table. And uh I mean that's really the gist of of the game. I can sit here and talk for for forever for all the the detail, but that's that's basically what it is.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, we played it twice and we were hooked on phonics, like it was just the thing to play. Um, I love word games, and I love the story of this, and I don't want to miss that, like how it came to be, what inspired you, and how husband and wife come together to actually build a board. I'm looking right at it. It is a legit board game that we'd have in this house and that we see being in houses all over the world. It's such a great, great game. Talk to us about the inspiration and how y'all work together to make this happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Um, yeah, well, uh, so you know, I wrote a children's book, and uh and along with the book, we started making some other other things that kind of go along with the book, some 3D models, and then we started making a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

How did you do that? How did you make those pieces? So the mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Well, yeah, so my wife being the architectural designer, um, we we took we took some of the uh a couple of the characters from the book. So the book is a book of poetry. So there's a bunch of different poems and different characters throughout those poems. We took a couple of them um that were originally 2D, converted them to 3D, and then my wife did all of her, I don't know what she does. She did all of her, what to me looks like magic. And and uh we have, you know, in our home we have 3D printers and uh l laser cutters, and we were able to uh take these two-dimensional creations and make these 3D models um and print them off in our in our home. Um and then the same thing with the puzzle, we we took the we took uh, you know, really after looking at you guys and what you had on your author, on your book table, and we started making a puzzle. And as we as we're learning how to make this puzzle and and trying to perfect it, um uh there was this one night where my wife plays this this uh this word game on her phone, on her, on your iPad, really. I don't remember the name of the game. Wordmasters. Wordmasters, okay, yeah. It's really like a crossword type game. And I was watching her play this game, thinking about these puzzles that we're trying to make, and it just it I got the idea then of I wonder if you could combine some kind of word game with puzzles. And I and I said that out loud to her, and she just I was off off my rock, my man. She dials, she it didn't make any sense. But that was where the idea came from at the time was we're making these puzzles for the book. She's playing this word game. I'm not I don't even play word games, I'm not even good at them. Um and and I and the idea of combining them together in a way that could make word building more more interesting for someone who's not necessarily a word game person, right? That's where the idea came from.

Prototypes With Laser Cutting And 3D Printing

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Awesome. So let's fast forward. You you you have this idea, boom, it strikes. You think you hit instant goal, but you have no plan in play. And I've been there before, so I know how that feels. Um when the light finally came on for you, Deb, what was your initial reaction once the light came on?

SPEAKER_05 18:23

I was like, oh, maybe this is like maybe there's something here. This might actually be fun. Because I I was a little unsure about like how you would combine the puzzles with the word building, and was it gonna be too confining and all of that? But once we played our first game, I was like, oh, okay, maybe you've got something here, like maybe this is something we actually can work with. And then that's when we began to kind of refine and develop even more the actual play of the game, the rules, all the bonuses, and all of those types of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, she uh the so the first set of pieces I had uh I had my graphic designer create. And and we we just I I I sent him kind of the the the shapes and everything, and he and or the I I sent him the kind of the the idea of what I wanted. He created the the the layout and then we cut it on our laser cutter and we were able to play. It wasn't um uh the the way that they were shaped at first didn't quite work, but it at least gave the I get let us be able to to play and experiment with the idea. And that's when the light kind of went off for her, and then she was she was all in.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, you know off to the races.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

And then then then it was like I I couldn't even hold her back. She's like redesigning the the pieces, and you know, she's trying to do stuff with her with her uh uh your your architecture design business. But oh yeah, but she kept taking time to do pazingo-related stuff.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

And because when you get inspired, you have to just kind of go with it. Gotta go with it, gotta go. Yeah. So I was inspired to, oh, okay, now we know we want them to interlock, so we need to do some changes to these. And so I knew I could do that. And we were at first just gonna do wooden tiles, but I was like, well, let me 3D print a few just so we can kind of see with the new design. And so once I did that, then he was like, Well, we might as well just use that as the basis line.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah, yeah, the 3D printing ones looked really good and they worked really well. So, yeah, I mean, like she all the now all all of the the design of the tiles and everything is all is all her.

Refining Rules And Strategic Gameplay

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, and it's so well done. So talk to us about what's next for Pazingo. What are your hopes, your dreams?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah, so big. Um we're we're really preparing for a Kickstarter.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Um, and so you know, we we have a limited number of boxes now. Just just the intent was to just make sure that it's going to work out. Like the size is right, the you know, everything's gonna fit, the quality of the box is good, the colors look good, all of that. And so uh now we have to uh now we have to start sending the game out to people who review games, people who play games, and you know, try to get some momentum uh through social media and other online platforms. Um But the whole goal is to launch a Kickstarter so that we can get uh get, you know, that's our first way of getting the game into people's hands. Um we hope that that leads to um being able to um, you know, one sell the game online. Um but then And two, we really want to get it in the stores. That's the long term goal, is to let people be able to walk into Target, Walmart, or wherever. Yeah. In addition to, you know, Amazon or wherever, but be able to like see the game, touch the game, and see, you know, see it in person and be able to buy the game. That's that's the that's the long term.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

So I I wanted to jump in here because um when I first met Julian and Deb, uh what I realized very quick was that these were very smart individuals. And I'll tell you how I usually go about discovering this. Um they're very methodical about how they move, they're very intentional about the way they move, and when they present something to you, that there's a full layout and and there's already a plan in play. A lot of times, people uh working in the movie industry, um, working in film writing, playwriting, songwriting, a lot of people have an idea, but that's all they have, and it never goes anywhere past that. And I hear that every day. Oh, I want to write a book. I'm I'm gonna write a book. I'm gonna ooh, I have a play, I want to write, but that's all it's that it ever is. You have just weeded out so many of the people in the field that you're now in because you've you've moved far past I want to, I've done it. And now you're entering into another field where there's even more fewer people. And so when you look at it from that perspective, you get a chance to see that you're really in a very big ocean with very few people. How does that make you feel?

Kickstarter Plan And Retail Dreams

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I mean the one thing that that that we discover, whether it was writing a book or the board game, is you just one thing you discover is that there actually are these these worlds of uh which I didn't know when I first had an idea. It's like I just want to do this. Then you then you start you start doing your research, you start looking at, you know, whether writing a book and board games, that there's a there's actually these subworlds that are like big and massive that you just don't know about. And and so when it comes to this board game, I'm I'm finding that there's people all over the world that are hugely into board games that I had no idea about. And and and you realize you actually are uh you know jumping into uh an ocean, right? And uh um, and so it challenges you even more to say, well, what what makes this stand out? What makes this different? Because there's actually a whole ocean of all kinds of people developing board games that I had no idea about. You know, we didn't even, we didn't, we live by a number of uh places around us that are board game, like stores and stuff that have, you know, where you can they have uh uh uh whether it's like Dungeons and Dragons or other kinds of board games where they have you know these game nights where like all these people come. Tournaments. I had no idea that this was going on. And so, like, okay, so what what makes this game stand out? So it makes you it challenges you even more to basically, you know, really, really to make whatever it is that you're making uh you know that that much of a even more so of a product that that you want to put before people that's gonna that's gonna make this a game that is different than everything else. And it makes you put a lot of time into everything that goes into this. Absolutely. Because something has to make your your game or whatever it whatever it is that you're trying to do different and stand out because there actually is an ocean full of other people doing the same thing. Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

Um, so I guess that's that's the first the first hurdle is just getting past the concept into the actual physical manifestation of it. But then the next hurdle is how do you get people interested? How do you like get exposure for it? Because yeah, you might once you get it, the actual game, yeah, you might have surpassed where like maybe I don't know 70, 80% of the people get to, but now there's another weeding out where you the the ones that actually make it. So you never really can like relax or say, yeah, that we've done something until you get to your ultimate goal, which is to get in in the stores and get people really actually playing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

So what makes it stand out? Yeah, I think I mean I could say, but I I'd love to hear from y'all and we can chime in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

It's it's interesting, it's an interesting question because um why by now people who would have have if if many others who would have if they would have designed this game, they would have already had the Kickstarter going. Um and I think we we want not just the game but your whole experience to be um unique and special. So there's some things about this game that I mean the gameplay itself is very unique. It's hard to explain to people. You have to kind of have to play the game. Um but the the fact that it's it's very strategic and it's not just um you know spell your word, but how do I place my tiles on the table in a way that gives me the most points and and gets me in a way where it makes it maybe challenging for my opponents, the other people playing the game, to use the tiles that I've put on the table to spell words from.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Um that brings like the gameplay to like this whole other level that you don't necessarily get from a lot of just straight word building games.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah, and I wanted to talk about that a little bit because Jen and I played along with uh Deb and Julian, and what I quickly discovered was that it's not just about the word, it's not just about how you play the word, it's not just about stopping someone, but you're you're it's communal, you're having fun, and it brings back that nostalgic feeling of excitement that we're playing this game tonight. And oh, by the way, we're gonna invite these people, and oh, by the way, these people are gonna be here. So it's it's a a group situation, and and what I really liked is like when we played the um team version of the of the uh Yeah, we had our daughter and son-in-law who are big board gamers, like that's their world.

Standing Out In The Board Game World

SPEAKER_00 29:17

When you said what you said about communities, like they not only buy the board, first of all, this group of people are very supportive of creatives, hands down. Like if you come up with something, they just honor that immediately. But I mean, they go into buying pieces for the board games that are like limited edition, they have protectors for things. I have to say, and I don't think this is in purpose on purpose, and I don't want to misrepresent your product, but I love that y'all are from LA now. I'm gonna say y'all are, you know, Angelinos and the colors, you guys are dodger blue. Like when I saw this, like, this is just like everything in this speaks the origin of LA, which I love. So all our California people, come on, like, let's support this because it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Absolutely. And while we're doing that, can we give a plug? Let's give um a couple of plugs for you guys. Uh, your websites, um, what uh website and how you want people to view Pazingo, and then just all your other stuff you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah, so though I mean the website is pazingo.com, P-U-Z-Z-I-N-G-O.com.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

And bingo was his name. Um Pazingo. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

You know, and so I mean what I alluded to earlier about the whole experience. So now it's is now with with this tabletop game, there's actually online tools that go with the game.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

And so, you know, you can uh and that's through doing playtests with like you guys and other people that that we've done. We've there's now this uh in keeping score, for example, you can do all through on your phone instead of using a pen and paper.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Um that was inspired by your daughter. Oh, see, I love that you take feedback and implement what works.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, and because part of part of what my background, and in addition to the creative stuff is I'm a software engineer. So, you know, I I we added these different tools now so that your whole experience of playing this game is is you know just a I don't know, we wanted to make your whole experience better.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

Um there are ones for different modes, like a timer for timed mode. There's um that would be pretty interesting. Category selector for category mode.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah, so it elevates like there's not just one way to play it. You can add, and that's a very, very much a board game uh gamer of today. They like the added elements, they want to have different ways to stretch their strategy, multiple endings. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah, I love it, I love it. And so while we're here, I I just want to pause for a second on the game. We'll get back to that in uh just a few minutes. But what I really want to say is how inspiring this couple has been to me and to my wife. Um marriage is always a really tough thing to survive for many years, right? Um, and we're living in a day and age where people just don't desire to stay together. Some people don't even desire to get together. So, you know, um it's encouraging when you have a couple that's working hard, working together and building together, and then you see the fruits of their benefits. And of course, you guys have children and all the other stuff once you get married. But this in our age bracket, when you start producing books as you have uh a board game, music, um, your architectural designing has brought fruits of the board game pieces and all that, that's when you really start to see what people are built of and made of and the longevity end of a relationship. So I I I don't want to let you guys leave out of here without giving you your flowers for what you've built, what you're creating, and what you're evolving into the world because this is a legacy. This will, I mean, of course, your your relationship is legacy and and what you believe in, but most people aren't talked about for more than a couple of months after they pass away. Unless you leave something that they can tangibly hold on to or go grab. Julian Montgomery and Deb Montgomery will be remembered by making this game, whether you want it to or not.

Online Tools And New Ways To Play

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yeah. I mean, that was that was really the inspiration for the book was to leave leave something, uh, knowing that you know I now have grandkids, I want to leave something for my grandkids. Yeah. And so that was really the the whole reason for the book. Going to fairs and festivals and all that stuff is like cool and all.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

But that's just extra stuff. It's really about my my granddaughter now, grandson, being able to have something once I move on to say, man, this is a book to my grandfather. And they'll have that for the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

And this game is the same kind of thing. It's something that's that's tangible, that's that's real, that that you hope outlasts you physically. Right. You know what I mean? So, um, and and at the same time, my wife is uh she's designing this extremely elaborate dollhouse for our granddaughter. That will be something that she'll be able to, you know, look back on for the rest of her life and say, this is something my my grandmother made for me. Even that when she stops, you know, she gets too old to play with the thing, you know, it's something that she'll be able to look back on. It's it's a legacy thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

You know what I mean? Love it. Legacy, man, you know, once you start getting, you know, first it was like we want to have, we want, you know, our kids are our legacy. But then you start looking at your kids and you say, well, what are they gonna have? What are their what are our, you know, the our kids are gonna have kids. What are they gonna have to look at, to touch, to hold, to stay connected to you when you're when you're long gone. And that's what that's what all this is.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

That's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

You know what that just from so there's a few things here that I just want to touch on, and I'm not about ageism, but I do have to say this a lot of people believe that you got to hit these goals, these dreams in your 20s and 30s. And the fact that y'all are starting something new and seeing it come to life at this time of your life, like what a beautiful thing. It reminds me of, if I may, for people who think, oh, I'm not creative that way. I don't have a wife who's an architect design. I'm I don't do music. I'm not, I don't think that way. Let me tell you, my grandmother, the legacy that she left, um, she planted her own garden and she taught us the love for cooking and food. In fact, the night before she passed away, she had made her last meal for my aunt's birthday. And we ate it the next day, the day she died, not knowing that that would be the last meal we've had of hers. And let me tell you, the taste of her food, just the sense of her kitchen, right? It just forever leaves that. And you see that in the generation still that she's left behind. So that's what we're talking about. When you have a gift to give your family, to give to the world, there's no limit on what it is. It truly is anything that you've been given that you can pass on that will leave your legacy.

Marriage, Creativity, And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah. Before we get out of here, Julian, what is the name of your book and where can that be found?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, so um the name of the book is Somehow Connected to Me in Some Way. Um, you can find it anywhere online. Um, and uh uh you can go to somehowconnected to me.com. Somehow connected to me in some way.com. Um, and you can, you know, you can find a lot of information there. There's also an audiobook that you can find on any of the the audiobook platforms, Audible, Apple Books, uh, I don't know what you know, there it's it's all over the place.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

I love the audiobook is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yes, it is, and Julian's voice is so soothing.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Whenever you hear it's on Audible, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah, I I the first time I I listened to the I think it was tickle the Tick Tickling the Ivories. Tickling the ivories. I I got a kick out of that one. That really sent me on a on a mind-bender because you know, hearing the the giggling and uh all the nuances that's happening inside the song.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Um but I well you know it's so appropriate because I believe this month is National Poets Month. Oh so it's so good to have a poet on on the episode this month.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah. So we're gonna wrap up, but we're gonna have you guys come back because we know you're gonna do a launch for this, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

And and and we gotta make that big. We might even do a live and and just have audience members, you know, asking questions and and just really pumping this thing up because we got to get this out there.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

We're down, man, for anything. We appreciate we appreciate y'all even having us, man, and want to talk to us about this. This I I can't even I'm just grateful, yeah you know, to be connected with you guys. And you know, as you already stated, you know, uh it's just it's cool to have some people that we randomly met at a at a festival, and now it's like we're like we're like homies. Yeah, absolutely.

Book Plug, Shout Outs, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 38:47

I second that. Absolutely. Um thanks for showing that gratitude. We are just such big advocates of the work that people bring into the world and just elevating that. And um we're behind you a hundred, a hundred. Like this is such a good game. And people who know Corey and I, we don't co-sign everything. We get excited when things are created, but we don't be like, this is the thing, but this is this is an amazing gift to the world, and just to be a part of it brings us such great joy.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah, and uh, before we go, Jen, no matter what country you're in or what state you're in, if you want to just put a shout out for Julian and and Deb, I really want to get behind them. Just give us a little shout out uh in some way that you can um through the website or on social media. Uh, we're gonna be posting this episode and we're gonna be posting the link to Pazingo. And so just let us know that you heard this. Yeah, let us know you heard this and that you're behind us, and then we'll give you more information as we go.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

And I have to say, mad love to our friends in Minnesota. We're not hating on the fact that y'all are out there and in that weather, and that there's um not so much diversity eight miles out of the main cities, but we love you, and maybe y'all want to come to California too. Come on up. Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for having us. Yeah, and you know us to take the elevator. We say, look up and let's elevate every day, elevate every day, elevate every day.