397th Floor: Good Leadership Vs Bad Leadership

Your team notices more than you think. They catch the tone behind your “no,” the silence after a hard question, and the subtle ways favoritism can creep into decisions. We sit down as Gen and Kory nd get candid about good leadership vs bad leadership, not as a theory, but as something we’ve lived through from two different vantage points: leading in a formal role and working alongside leaders every day. 

 We dig into servant leadership, trust, and psychological safety at work. We talk about leaders who get in the trenches, leaders who take accountability without pride, and why gaslighting and blame-shifting crush morale. We explore practical habits like saying “Let me get back to you tomorrow,” the real cost of overcommitting a team, emotional intelligence under stress, and how clarity and collaboration matter when nobody has all the answers. 

If this conversation helps you rethink how you lead, support, or influence others, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. 

Look up, and let's elevate. 

Transcript

Opening Laughs And Momentum

unknown 0:02

Every day. Elevate. Every day. Elevate. Every day.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hey, it's Jen the Builder. And the Corey. And I can't believe we are here recording another episode. I feel like we just dropped last week. This week flew by.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Oh my. Yes, it did. It flew by. And but here's the good thing about it flying by. So we we can run off the energy of the last drop. We had a lot of good feedback from the last episode. And so I just think, yeah, let's ride the wave. Keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yeah. And if you guys haven't heard about, I forget what the title is, but it's something like your closet is wanting peace. Right. We're talking about spring cleaning, but we totally elevate that topic. And that was a lot of fun to do.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Absolutely. So I wanted to share with the listeners and the friends that we're uh talking to on a weekly basis. I have the great privilege of working with a very funny woman. And she says some of the most wildest things ever. And so I'm not going to go into detail about everything that she does, but sometimes it's a whole lot. Sometimes Jen just says some things that have us laughing when we're working out, laughing when we're in bed, laughing when we're on our way to work or on our way home from work. And it's just such a treat and such a joy. I just had to share that because she's constantly putting a smile on my face. So just happy to share that little bit of joy and understanding.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

That's so sweet of you to not elaborate because I there's a lot we can pick here. And I'm just gonna keep it general. I just have my own way of describing things, and I have my own lyrics to songs that like exist and are well known.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And don't nobody else know them.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

And I so I just create my own, and it's quite funny. Um, but yes, thank you, Corey. I'm glad that we have good laughs.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, great laughs. The belly laughs. That's the important part. They gotta be good belly laughs.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yes.

Olympics Book Idea For LA

SPEAKER_00 2:11

On another note, I would love to share two major things that are happening for Jenko Sound Company and the Fuzzy Furry Forest. So if you didn't know, we are published children's book authors, and that's one of our joys in life. Um, we've been able to see some success. We've been able to see some things that a lot of people claim that they haven't seen yet. And so I don't accredit that to um just I don't accredit that just to the incredible book writing that we do, which I think is pretty incredible. That's why I'm saying it. Uh, you got to believe in you before someone else believes in you. What I'm saying though is it's been successful because we've done things that we didn't plan on doing. We didn't put our bucket list of things to do on record or in print. We just set out to change some people's lives in the best way we could with children's stories. And I know for me and Jen, it's a God thing. We we definitely prayed that this would be very successful, and now we're seeing things that we've never seen before. So the reason why I'm telling you this, and I'm gonna get Jen on this real quick too, but I I don't think she knows what I'm about to announce. Uh, this is fresh off the presses, and it's one of those things that I've been kind of toying with in my mind. So everyone knows that the Olympics is coming to LA. LA and the Fuzzy Furry Forest wants to go to the Olympics too. And so there's gonna be an additional book added to the series, and it's the Olympic version. So, what I'm asking, if that excites you to put an Olympic book about the fuzzy furry forest together, if that excites you, I'm just gonna ask that you give us a little bit of encouragement. You say something about it, you tell us, you know, what your feelings are on that, just so we can know we should move forward with this. Because a lot of people give us, you know, positive feedback, but some people tell us the truth, like, hey, you know, I wasn't really feeling that episode. And I get it, you know, every episode is not gonna be your cup of tea. Jim, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, you know, I'm always excited to add another book to the series. I think it's perfect to my opinion, is to have the Olympics, especially because of how the series started with Ruffles running a race.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

And so I hope y'all are somewhat aware of of the series and what it's about. Um, but I think it makes sense. If I don't know if you're planning to have that as the last book, but that's pretty phenomenal because there's a bunch of different little racers or hoppers um throughout the series. So it's gonna be kind of cool to see them jump off the the line at the same time and see who wins.

Growing Beyond Just Books

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Uh, one more thing that we're gonna be talking about in the very near future is what it what in what's in store for the fuzzy furry forest and what we're looking forward to do with it. Um I guess I'm basically saying this thing is going to evolve. It's not gonna stay just in books, it's not gonna stay just in libraries and stores and readings. Uh, there's an evolution that's coming, and we're gonna evolve this to a much bigger platform. And and we again want your support and we want your ideas as well, so that when this thing launches and when it goes off, and it might be next year, it might be the year after after that, but I want to be sure that everyone that's involved in this is on board 100% to see what we can bring next to the fuzzy furry forest. And I'm gonna start dropping some ideas and some hints, and hopefully you'll be on board with us.

Leadership In Work And Life

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Perfect. Perfect. So I'm excited about today's episode because it's around a topic that I'm very passionate about, and I'm looking forward to the expansion of this topic because it's not what I love this, Corey, because even the last episode we did, it sounds like it could be what it is, but we've managed to blow it up and talk about other things. So you had brought this topic up, so I'm gonna leave it to you to do the honors of introducing it.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So the the way it came to me was good leadership versus bad leadership and being able to differentiate the two. Um Jen and I both work in positions that are opposite from one another. She's in leadership, I'm not. And so I get to see a point of view that she doesn't, and she gets to see a point of view that I don't. So I'm always curious of how leadership views the other people and how the other people views leadership, and then how we view ourselves, because sometimes you know leaderships put put leadership puts sorry, puts themselves on pedestals that don't belong to them. And so I just I'm just wanting to have this conversation and see where it goes. And and I have no preconceived idea on what this is gonna bring, but I hope it it produces a good conversation.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yes. So I appreciate the intro there. And the part that I'd like to add to it is even though at our nine to five, I am in a leadership role, Corey. I see you very much as a leader because of your impact and influence on people. In fact, even at our jobs, you hold a leadership role where you're representing a group of people and it's a very important, special group of people, and you're educating people on their history, on their culture, and it's it's such a beautiful place to be. Also, you're the CEO of Fuzzy Furry Forest. Oh my! And in addition to that, you're the leader of this home, right? Even though um we talk on everything, but at the end of it, based on our beliefs, you are head of this house, and I have no problems with that at all. It's been a joy to be led by you. So I think that's where I'd like to expand it to. Yes, leadership as in management positions, but leadership just in life. So if you have influence over anybody, or if you're able to make an impact on people in eighth, we I think we all do, um, that's what I'd like to bring to the table today.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Very well said, Janet. Indeed, I will hone in on my leadership role here and in the fuzzy fur furry forest, as well as what I do and bring to certain aspects of the job.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yes, yes. So another thing I'm gonna invite us to is I myself am gonna let go of so much of the things that I've been taught and I've taught myself, right? Just these buzzwords and maybe the right things to say, especially because it's to do with leadership. So I'm just gonna release that and just have open and candid relationship. I mean, conversation on this topic. And um, maybe what will come out is the truth about what we feel, but don't always say, you know, because that's a big part of leadership, especially when you're in management. People may not always say what they feel because of the hierarchy.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

So let's let's go.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Let's do it.

Serve First And Join The Trenches

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Okay. I you want me to start first. Yeah. So I believe that when you talk to me, we kind of want to ping pong between good and bad leadership. Yes. I think too, um, I want to prelude with we've all felt the difference between good and bad. I'm gonna say I know I have. I know I have. Um, and that sometimes it's even before a word is spoken, because it's through action, I think. Number one, um, for leadership, it's through their actions. So let's talk about a good quality. Right. I'll start if you don't mind. So I think here um a good leader serves and doesn't dominate. Um, and I I do have references because I'm just gonna be very honest about this. When I think of leadership, good leadership and bad, there is one most perfect, amazing, awesome leader that I look to as an example, and that's Jesus Christ himself and how he lived his life on this earth. So that's an example. And then there are amazing leaders as examples as well throughout the world. So when I think of them serving, I'm just reminded that he truly came to serve. Jesus came to serve, and what does that look like? I think they're even world teaching good leaders have humility and um they understand that it's not about saying do what I do, um, or do as I say, but do what I do. And what I do is what I'm willing to do if I've asked you to do the same. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, absolutely. I I'm gonna jump in there and say that a good leader uh will be in the trenches with their team.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Men, women, boys, girls, if you're a good leader, you're going to be in the trenches with your team. You're gonna see every project, every mission through to the end, and everyone gets dirty. Everyone pulls their their weight, everyone comes out alive. And I don't I don't mean in a war scenario, but I mean everyone comes out unscathed because a leader is gonna make sure that whatever goes down or goes on in the workspace, in the trenches of whatever it may be, they're they're gonna make sure that their team is good and healthy and making the best progress possible. And they set that example. That's the example that I intend this, uh intend to set at home in uh the Genko Sound Company, and anywhere else we go. I'm not gonna ask you to do anything that I wouldn't do, and I'm gonna be the first one in and the last one out.

Trust, Safety, And Favoritism

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I love that. I love that. First one in, last one out. I'm gonna remember that. That's that is such a good way to say that, Corey. Um when I think of that too, and what you're describing is let's talk real quick about this concept of creating safety where people can trust you. Right. I think that's something that is so um just repeated over and over and it loses its value at times. Um have you ever worked or been under a leader or seen someone who has a leadership role that doesn't build trust and actually might cause harm?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

I've been in that situation and I've seen that situation multiple times. And uh being my age, it's really easy to catch now, where as before you you thought maybe there was just a a misunderstanding or possibly some notes being taken so that they could understand the story a little bit better. But I I've literally seen uh leadership take sides, play favorites, um spend more time with their loved ones or their beloveds, so to speak, so that they can, you know, show the rest of the team that you're not where the other ones are. And and that creates so much dissension and so many cracks in the armor. So that when you are under the gun to do something or in the spotlight to shine, you can't because you have too many team members that just don't feel worthy because they've never experienced the the the love and respect and the honor of some other team members.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Okay. I can receive that, and I'm gonna tell you some teachings that are contradictory to that. Okay. Um, favoritism is never a good thing. Right. Um, and I've heard people say, well, you know, even parents, whether they want to admit it or not, have favorites, and usually that's based on the child who's doing what they're supposed to do, who's not being rebellious. And so it kind of happens that way too in the workforce. If someone shows up to work on time, is doing their projects, communicating, right? It like that person more than likely will be the one considered for promotion or whatever, and then you have others who aren't quite performing there or um are showing up late, whatever the case may be. And because there is different treatment based on behavior, can that be seen as favoritism and but can it be understood as well?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Oh, that's the question for me. Um, I I think that two things can be possible at the same time. And I also think that um as a leader, I always have to go back and re-evaluate exactly what it is that I'm doing and what emotions that I'm causing. Because if I don't keep evaluating what's happening, I'm drifting further and further into deep waters with this team that I'm attempting to lead. And so I've I would personally say, let me go back to the drawing board and see what I've done wrong. As at and I'm speaking personally, I'm not speaking about anyone in you know out there in the world. If I'm being honest with myself, I I gotta say there's more I can do. Yeah, there's more work that I can do with any group of people that I'm working with. And and you know, as being singers, um, we we've experienced really well-trained singers to beginners, and sometimes those beginners need a little bit more work, and you can't allow them to throw themselves away, and I refuse to throw them away. So I have to put in a little bit extra time to make sure that that team member is at least up to par to be able to sing or be able to perform.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Right. Yeah, there's definitely more energy, and I think there's some truth there where leaders might be inundated with other things. So the person who needs less development or less talking with um, you know, that can weigh heavy sometimes depending on the day. No excuses. Absolutely, but you're right. When someone needs more development or needs more help, that's where time and energy should go versus the one that's already flying and doing their thing. Um, when I think of creating safety, I also think too that, and this is in the Bible that speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. And I take that even to the point where can't speak for themselves because they're not in the same meetings as you, right? Or you're getting recognized for great work. Please, and I've we've said this so many times before, call people out by name, let them know who's actually doing the work, whose ideas they are. Um, Amy Edmondson, and she's big on psychological safety. She says that teams perform best where people feel safe to speak. And in working with leaders, Corey, I've told them we're in a new, in a new space in this world where changes are so accelerated, there's no way we can know all the answers, right? To changes that are happening. And to say, like, oh, I know why this is happening, and this is where we should go next. You now have to be courageous enough to say, I am not the expert on this and I'm right where you are, but we're gonna be here together. And anything that you share with me, I'm gonna listen, I'm not gonna run from it, and I'm gonna share your concerns with people I report to.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Here's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

And I often share this with other leaders, whether they listen to me or not, I just share this. There's nothing wrong with saying, let me get back to you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Give me 24 hours to answer this or to inform you of what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I don't have the answer right now, but I can get back to you tomorrow. And then take that time. And see, a lot of times we as leaders know the answer, but we just don't want to say it right off the bat, or instead of offending right off the bat, but no, we're not doing that without even taking into consideration whether or not it's doable or not, or you want to, you might just be in a bad mood. If you say, give me 24 hours or I'll get back to you tomorrow. Basically, what you've done is you've allowed that individual to say to themselves they're gonna either think about it or talk to someone because they're I've been acknowledged.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I've been acknowledged.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

They heard me, yeah, and everyone wants to be heard, so that that just buys you a little bit of time and gives you a little bit more grace from that individual so that you can come back and deliver a very soft no or a definitive yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I really appreciate that soft no. I think those harsh no's and immediate no's um, of course, will shut the mouths of the people, and it can actually create some kind of fear because then you're like, I don't want to be rejected, right? Not especially not in front of people, right? And so Gallup has done research, and you know, where we work, there's engagement surveys. I know a lot of companies do like 360s and employee engagement, feedback, things like that. Do you know that leadership, Corey, management accounts for 70% of the variables that you see in those surveys? That's huge. 70%. Yeah, some of its benefits, right? And what we do for the community, but 70% of what we see is due to management. Now, the tricky thing is what management, right? Because there's a direct soup and there's other leaders above that soup or other leaders they have to work with.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

You said the tricky thing that's tricky, but that's not tricky, that's just a trick. And I I have to say this because a lot of times, you know, we are looking for ways to hide behind something. Okay. One way or another, be it, you know, uh a policy that we know people aren't gonna like, or be it because of uh the way it may expose us to everything coming in or everything going out. So I get it though. I understand. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying, you know, sometimes you gotta just be aware that there are some tricky things in the small print.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yes, I love that. Um, I wanted to give a support statement to what we were just talking about. If your present silence is People, then your leadership is costing more than it's contributing.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

I like that.

Accountability Without Pride Or Blame

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Powerful. Yeah. So I wanted to talk about um taking accountability. This one's a huge one. We hear it all the time because I believe that leadership at the end of the day is about stewardship. You've been given some responsibilities. You've been given a specific role. How are you stewarding that? Right. So when we talk about taking accountability, I think it's important that leaders, leaders must own their mistakes to build trust. Speaking of trust, it's just own the mistake. One of my pet peeves, we see it throughout the Bible, especially in the Old Testament. We see it happening still today is gaslighting. Like so-and-so made me do this. Um, well, if you had if you had done it on time, then I wouldn't have been late, or I wouldn't have had to do things on my own.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

I did this because of you.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yes. Oh, that's an ouch. That's an ouch.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Yeah, so let's let's approach this very gently. Um, honestly speaking, Jen, it's really hard for a leader to say, I was wrong, I shouldn't have done this. But why is it hard? Pride. That's what it boils down to. It's it's pride. And pride is something really hard to swallow or get rid of. And and honestly, middle management should have the most or the least amount of pride than anyone else. Absolutely. Because they're they're catching it from the top and they're catching it from the bottom. Yeah. So why build yourself on something that you know is gonna get damaged? It's almost like working out to overeat or eat sugar all the time. You're in there pumping iron in a gym and you're getting all strong, and then you go straight and get a chocolate shake and two chocolate chip cookies and a piece of cake. You're you're defeating the purpose because ultimately, and this is why my my theory in being in the trenches helps me because I'm not gonna lie, I get called out all the time. And and sometimes I'm being caught. Like, okay, that was wrong. I shouldn't have done it that way, or maybe I should have done it this way, or maybe I need to go back to the drawing board and start over. But I don't have a problem with that because I want to be a better me. I want me to be the best me possible. So there's no need in me doing that very thing that I know is gonna set me up, which is having all that pride in a swelled up chest and a big head.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah. Pride, right? There's a Bible verse in Proverbs that says pride goeth before the fall or before um destruction. And truly that destroys a team's ego. Man, uh, you know, let that ego go. It's it's not even it's not even worth it.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

And one last thing, Jen. I know for a fact, I've been on both sides of this coin, but when your team sees you fall, when your team sees you prideful and arrogant, it's much more damaging because now they've seen a side of you that they never wanted to see. And so they have to deal with that and compartmentalize how to move on with you or move forward with you.

Develop People And Build Real Teams

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Right. And then it goes back to them being fearful of saying what it is. Right. Right. So with that in mind, too, I think as we're talking about leaders, we in conversation we see a lot of it is about relationship building. Absolutely. Knowing that everything you do and say, it's not just about creating intentions, but you'll know them by their fruits, the outcome by which they do things. So I think a good leader too develops their people. Um whereas on the flip side, there's growth that's dunted. Um, there's not a passion for mentoring or seeing them develop in their skills, right? Um, I think of equipping your people for works of service. John Maxwell says a leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way, to your point before. So they're not just creating followers, like, oh, I'm your leader, do it as I say, but they're actually creating more leaders.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah. And what and to that point, let's just slightly modify that for me, from my point of view. Um, a good leader recognizes what kind of team they have. Everybody's not a leader, everybody's not the quarterback, everybody's not the receiver, everyone's not the running back. You gotta have some linemen to protect the quarterback, you gotta have some linebackers to be able to read the field. And that's just some football jargon. But um basically, you gotta have each player in in every position so that the positions are filled and being covered, opposed to if everybody wants to be a leader or wants to be the manager or the supervisor, you got a big problem on your hands. If you hired all managers, what would happen? Uh all chiefs. All chiefs, right? You got all these leading roles and nobody doing the work. Nobody doing the work.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

So you got that really counts.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah, so uh I that that's my point of view is make sure you're hiring for the positions that are needed.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

That's right. And I love that too, because to your point, you've got to have a line that I don't know to football, but I think you said a line that protects the quarterback so they can run all these plays. Man, every position is so critical in getting the work done. Now, one would think that when I said develop your team, you would think, oh, the opposite of that is not equipping them with tools or you know, not giving them the training that they need, which is partially true.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Partially.

Overcommitment That Breaks People

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Um, here's where mine my mind goes more is when instead of developing them, you're overwhelming them and overcommitting them.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Right. Oh, that's that's a big one. That's a huge one. Yes. Can I speak on that? Yes, um, personal experience firsthand. Um, every job is your job, you can do anything. There, there's no job too big or too small for for my team, and that's just not true. Your team has a job, a job description, a job title, and a job role. And the moment you get outside of that title, role, or description, you're risking danger of injury, you're risking danger of lawsuit. Because at the end of the day, if something goes wrong and that team member says, Well, I was never trained to do that problem. You know what I mean? Yeah, and so you just can't take on that perspective or that that ideology that there's no job too big or too small. There's definitely a job too big, and definitely a job too small for for any particular person to do. Please, you know, you gotta stay away from that that that mindset.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah. It's like this just because everything is important doesn't mean anything is.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

That's like, and I had to learn this, Corey. This was a big one for me. The overcommitting, overworking, overwhelming. I just seen it as, especially during COVID, man. This one I took huge accountability for. Um, and I would make the excuse, you know, no one gave me a playbook. This was all new. We were figuring out as we went. And I started to justify that. Then when you look back, and then I replay what I saw on my screen on Teams and the then their faces, and I was just so about we gotta keep going, we gotta keep going. And I didn't pause, I didn't ask. I mean, I asked how they were doing, but I wasn't listening, right? And I wasn't paying attention to the fatigue that not only I saw my screen, but maybe that I didn't see. Right. You know, we just kept performing and we went on for that like two years. Yeah. And um, man, that that was a hard pill to swallow. Um, it, you know, something I asked for forgiveness for, and I swore I would never do that again.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

That's huge, Jan, and I'm glad that you uh discovered that that was the space you were operating in. But just to nail it to the wall for good, I I liken it to this. You take a construction worker, and they're building a hospital, and that construction worker is very good at his job. And when the construction is done, they they need to hire doctors and nurses, right? And some CSWs. You would never ask that construction worker to fill one of those roles. So if you wouldn't ask a construction worker to fill the role of a doctor or nurse, even though they may figure it out, they may have some clue of what they're doing, in the same way you wouldn't ask for that construction worker to be security or a janitor. Right. Not because they couldn't do it, they may figure it out, but that's not the role and that's not the title for them. And so I I again I commend you for being honest about the stretch because sometimes we think we're stretching people, but actually we're breaking people, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Snapping them.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah.

Emotional Connection Under Pressure

Clarity And Courage To Say Unsure

SPEAKER_01 32:07

So that really led me to not ignoring the heart. And I would teach on things like emotional intelligence, and uh man, I had to go back and say, Oh, I missed that. Um and it's just that emotional disconnect. And for me, that's easy. It was easy back then to do when I was in the grip. So when things are high stress, I tend to disconnect emotionally, or I did, and I'm being so on purpose and not just in thought, but in action to stay connected. Because if you can't lead people well, then you you don't um if you if you don't feel people well, you can't lead them well, is what I'm trying to say. You gotta feel them well, right? You know, so I think well, I didn't touch on clarity and vision. Also, that's great leadership when you're able to give people clarity.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Um, say more. And when uh I'll ask the question to get, you know, push us further.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

But when you have a situation where there needs to be clarity given, and you don't have the clarity yourself, what's the response supposed to be?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Well, that goes back to what we talked about, where you don't have all the answers anymore, and it takes courage to say, I don't, I'm not clear either.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

And to your point, let me plug in to other leaders and get some clarity and see what I can come up with in partnership with them and bring it back to you.

When Leaders Refuse To Collaborate

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yes, and you just brought one more thing up for me that I want to ask.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

What is the solution for a leader that does not want to plug in to other leaders? They're kind of flying solo, flying out there in the in the wild, wow west themselves by themselves.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

I love that question. What's the solution? I'm gonna give you a very coached answer if you don't mind. Uh-oh. I'd want to plug into that leader and find out why you're not plugging in because I think that solution lies within that leader, right? There's so many different things. It could be maybe they two were harmed, or maybe they said um something and they were rejected. You know, you just you just don't know why they're not collaborating, or it could be they're not engaged, or they don't feel safe. And that's the thing we forget about leaders too. They're human as well, and they have the same needs that everyone else does. So that would be my answer.

Your Team Sees Everything

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Really, because um, you know, when you experience something like that, uh a lot of people think you don't see it. Here, here's something I want to leave, you know. This is yeah, it's not a mic drop type of situation, but I want to leave this here so that you can go back and rewind this part. If this is you, your team sees every part of your leadership, every weak point, every strong point, every solid point, every wavering point, they see it all. No, you're not hiding from anyone. And so when you know this, when you go into the job knowing that I'm not hiding, if I'm lying to them, they know it. If I'm uh gaslighting them, they know it. If you go into it like that, um, I think you're a little less apt to act in those inappropriate ways. Yeah.

No Finger Pointing, Just Growth

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah. I really am digging what you're saying, and here's why. Because we're not pointing fingers. If there's anyone here listening, this is not like, oh, you're a bad leader because you did this. I think it's more than it's not pointing fingers.